Warhammer 40k Chaos Daemons in a Chaos Space Marine Army?
I am a 40k beginner and am building up a Chaos Space Marine army. I am having a hard time finding specific rules on using Chaos Daemons in a CSM army. From what I understand, in the little that I have found, you can summon specific daemons(as is described in the CSM codex), or you can have Daemon allies. How does allying work?
Are the rules different when using daemons in a CSM army versus a total Daemon army?
Is summoning restricted to certain daemons?
Would I be able to use something like a Chaos Soul Grinder or a Daemon HQ?
Thanks
I hope this adds some extra information to the other answer (which is, I should add, all correct).
In a standard game of Warhammer 40k,. Chaos Space Marines (CSM) and Chaos Daemons (CD) cannot be used together, as they use different codexes, and unless it is specifically stated, units cannot be mixed together. This is something which frustrates many Chaos players, as previous CSM codexes did allow you to use many of the powerful Daemons such as Bloodthirsters.
Apocalypse games are different, and in that instance CD and CSM armies can indeed be allied into a single force (you will need to own both the CSM and CD codex though). As a beginner, you may not be familiar with Apocalypse. It’s essentially 40k designed to be played with very large armies (3000+ points), and these battles can last a whole day or even longer! There are special rules and units that can only be used in Apocalypse games – like Titans! Probably not something you’ll be looking to play for awhile, as it takes a long time to build and paint an army that size!
In the background of several Traitor Legion armies, Chaos Marines and Daemons fought closely side-by-side – the Word Bearers, for example. To appease some players, the current CSM codex does allow some use of Daemons, albeit in a limited form. There are two Daemon unit choices in the CSM codex – Summoned Greater Daemons, and Summoned Lesser Daemons. Basically, these are generic Daemons, and are nowhere near as powerful as their full counterparts in the CD codex. You can go ahead and use Bloodletter models as Summoned Lesser Daemons if you’re playing a Khorne CSM army, but you won’t get any of the special rules that Bloodletters get in the CD codex (hellblades, etc). Likewise, you could use a Bloodthirster or Lord of Change model as your Greater Summoned Daemon, but the stats will be the same. Both kinds of summoned Daemon are brought on to the game differently. With the Summoned Greater Daemon, you have to sacrifice a Chaos Lord or Champion to bring it on. Consider this before deciding to buy one for your army. Summoned Lesser Daemons are a pretty good choice though – they’re cheap, and make decent cannon-fodder or objective campers.
The only unit that is shared between the CD and CSM armies is the Daemon Prince. Daemon Princes are essentially former Chaos Marine Champions that have ascended to Daemonhood, and they use the same model in both armies. The rules and options available are slightly different though. In a CD army they count as a ‘Heavy’ choice, while they are an HQ in the CSM army.
You mention the Soul Grinder as a model you’d like to use… well, there’s a unit in the CSM codex that’s pretty similar – the Defiler. The Defiler is what is known in the background as a Daemon Engine – essentially a Daemon bound to a machine. So, if you want your CSM to have a Daemonic flavour, go ahead and pick one of these! If you prefer the Soul Grinder model though, you should pick that one up. I’m confident that most players would be happy for you to use the Soul Grinder as a “counts as” Defiler – they both have practically the same base after all. I would note that you’d need to be careful with weapon choices though, to ensure it stays rules legal. I should also note that using a Grinder as a counts-as Defiler would not be possible if you’re playing an Apocalypse game that contains both Soul Grinders and Defilers, in which case things would be very confusing!!!
Remember, above all, that 40k is designed to be a fun game to play! Whilst you cannot ally units from different codexes in the rules, in friendly, non-tournament games, ‘anything goes’ as long as all players agree before the game! The problem is that by mixing up units from different 40k codexes, there is far less balance in the game. Every army has certain strengths and weaknesses, and if everyone could just pick the best units from each codex into a single army, games could be very one sided! Still, if done carefully with CSMs and CDs, it could work, and could be a lot of fun!
Hope I’ve been of help, and if I can be of any more help feel free to message me. Happy gaming, fellow follower of Chaos!
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